Curse

Sophitia Leafblade · Nov 16, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Well i dont agree with u tieing our hands further by limited heros but if thats what Anet has got to do to quiet all those L33tists out there then i guess tahts what they need to do. :'( oh well back to PvE then for me since on one wants to PUG with a non ranked person even if there are experienced in all PvP except HA

phasola · Nov 16, 2006, 11:53 AM // 11:53

You will be missed.
Seriously if you enjoy heroes so much you should feel no difference between current HA and PvE.

Sophitia Leafblade · Nov 16, 2006, 12:06 PM // 12:06

well i actually do prefer to play with people, but my guildies arnt on much atm, and most of my friends are always up to something else, so i end up with just a couple of friends and some heros

since no one will take us on since were unranked, i can safey say ive never heroway'd without atleast 2 other real players with me and we dont use Henchies cause there usless

Lord Mendes · Nov 16, 2006, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

Well i dont agree with u tieing our hands further by limited heros but if thats what Anet has got to do to quiet all those L33tists out there then i guess tahts what they need to do. :'( oh well back to PvE then for me since on one wants to PUG with a non ranked person even if there are experienced in all PvP except HA

Well I was hoping someone wouldnt post something like this because this is going to promote some uber flaming, but I just have to answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

Whenever someone poses to me the elitist issue, I ask them to solve this dilemma:

Suppose that rank is meaningless. If this is true, then an unranked person should be able to gather unranked people and perform equally as well as the ranked people. As such, there should be no desire to enter ranked groups in the first place. The complaint is negated.

Suppose that rank is meaningful. If this is true, then why should it be wrong or surprising that the ranked exclude the unranked from teams? As such, there should be no opportunity to enter ranked groups in the first place and the complaint is negated.

If you can solve my dilemma, I'll take you seriously with regards to "elitism being a problem". I rather doubt you will though.

I agree that the current system is hard on newer players, but please keep in mind that we ALL had to go through the same you are going through.
Now I am proposing an optional district that players under rank 3 can go to. I don't want to divide all the ranked and unranked players as many have suggested before, I just think it would be nice to add an OPTIONAL district that unranked players can go to if they are looking for an unranked party. All the rest would remain the same.
Also a nice LFG might help towards this problem of unranked players not finding teams. This would consist of perhaps an NPC you can go to and see is LFG in this district, their rank (optional), and what they can play. Something like this might help the newer players, instead of spamming "Air Spiker LFG!".

Now I have a question for Sophitia, why HA if you want to play with heroes against other heroes in HA? HA is supposed to be a high-end PvP arena. You want to HA? No one is preventing you from doing that without heroes. It might take some time and effort, but you will get there and trust me you will enjoy it 50 times more than you are right now.

Again sorry for taking this off-topic, I just felt like I had to answer.

Sophitia Leafblade · Nov 16, 2006, 12:28 PM // 12:28

lol i dont go to HA to play with heros i only end up having to use them since no one will accept me into a group because im un ranked cause im only R1 and u cant show that title so people instantly think i suck since i display no rank, granted im inexperienced at Ha but im not totally useless, i know what im doing. I like i said ive never fully herowayed on my own and nor do i intent to cause thats no fun i like playing with real people but they dont like playing with me since im unranked unless there pople i already know ie Guildies or friends. And as for what i said earlier im not complaining as such if thats what Anet thinks is right then its ok with me but i would just be nice to be able to compete rather than just having to stick to RA and TA etc. Its more fun to experience everything in GW rather than being shunned out because you have got a little title below your name.

Northrog · Nov 16, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

The problem is not :

Which is the max number of npc(heroes +hench) for ha ?

But :

Which is the min number of real players for ha ?

6 real players is the best number, but I won't be disgusted (as I am now) if I fight against a 4 real people team + only 2 npc.

Npc (heroes +hench)must be a minority. That's all.

Squirrelly · Nov 16, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

I'm pretty sure that 90% of the people who now have rank spent a good deal of time LFG before they got their rank. By good deal of time I mean 1 hour+. Sometimes 3...

/ontopic
To be honest, I don't even consider the possibility of facing a decent team on the way to HoH now. I KNOW that more often than not I will just be able to slide my way through five bots and some guy to lazy to form a group. I need just enough offense to drop 2 monks some combination of 4 times(number of rez sigs in the avg group) and the rest can be safely devoted to holding an altar forever. The way HA used to be setup the scrubby teams were usually cleaned out by the 4th map or so. Now it's not unusual for them to make it to and WIN halls.

Winning used to mean something. You had the satisfaction of knowing you outplayed the other team. Now it means I have to wait til I get to the HoH to even have the possibility of that former satisfaction; only when said possibility arises I find I don't really care anymore because there are only two possible builds the other team is running, and my odds of kicking either one from halls are ridiculously low. So instead I just go sit in observer mode waiting for my guildies to get on because spending the effort to do something isn't worthwhile when I know for a fact that I'll be disappointed before I even begin.

/sigh

Sol Is Pyrrhus · Nov 16, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabale

I would say remove them (Heroes) completely from HA. Limiting is not going to cut it.

/signed

Frank Dudenstein · Nov 16, 2006, 01:40 PM // 13:40

I agree that 1-man teams in HA are bad for the game ... but PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD don't remove heroes completely.

HA is not only the land of Guild Groups ... it is also the only place to PUG PvP .. and heroes are the best thing to happen to pugs EVER!

* A properly specced hero can outperform your average PUG 90% of the time.
* Heroes don't take 30 minutes to find and spec ... only to rage after one loss
* Heroes follow orders and do what you ask ... how many pugs do that?

So you HA guilds tell me that it's not challenging to fight heroes... and it IS challenging to fight a r0 grab six'n'go? It's a challenge to fight a r3 pug trying to run Signet of Mystic Wrath spike???

There will always be bad teams ... and easy matches ... actually heroes are more challenging than your typical r2-er... so don' blame it on the heroes.

I think a reasonable compromise is 3 real people are required.

Oh, and anet, if you DO go with the "maximum three heroes" solution .. please let one person bring all three heroes. It's bad enough trying to spec a pug ... but trying to get one to spec his hero too? You might as well ask me to claw my eyes out ;-)

william1975 · Nov 16, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

The only thing i can say to this is i came late to this game i tried ha after ages of tryign to get there, nobody would take me in a group because i had no rank, any group that did take me sucked, now with heroes i can get in one my own and manage to at least win the first couple of of maps sometimes, so im getting fame, which is needed to get into a good team, otherwise i wait for my guild to come on. The fact of this matter is that most people on the pvp ha portion of this game are elitist, and are not interested in anyone under a certain level, for those of us who are not there i think heroes offer a viable option for gaining fame and playing. those people complaining about it should adapt rather than say ban something they dont like. modifications come and if they limit heroes then fine, if they dont fine, games are alway goign to be dominated by a few builds that work, it doesnt matter if heroes are there or not.

Lord Mendes · Nov 16, 2006, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1975

The only thing i can say to this is i came late to this game i tried ha after ages of tryign to get there, nobody would take me in a group because i had no rank, any group that did take me sucked, now with heroes i can get in one my own and manage to at least win the first couple of of maps sometimes, so im getting fame, which is needed to get into a good team, otherwise i wait for my guild to come on. The fact of this matter is that most people on the pvp ha portion of this game are elitist, and are not interested in anyone under a certain level, for those of us who are not there i think heroes offer a viable option for gaining fame and playing. those people complaining about it should adapt rather than say ban something they dont like. modifications come and if they limit heroes then fine, if they dont fine, games are alway goign to be dominated by a few builds that work, it doesnt matter if heroes are there or not.

Well why don't those of you that aren't ranked start your own parties?
I did it, why can't you?

Cass · Nov 16, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

True words, Mendes. I know I didn't get my rank by joining R-whatever groups.

My opinion on the topic: No heroes in HA please. None. And please make it 8vs8 again!

hyro yamaguchi · Nov 16, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Ok Gaile, about this thread,it obviously points into my direction, I would like to apologise for my thread in riverside, I was just pissed that night, so I'm sorry.

Anyway: great we finally get some feedback.

God Apprentice · Nov 16, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

No limit please, take them completey out. Even if you did limit someone could grab his 2 friends and have them rage after the Zaishen to get henches, thus defeating the whole limit in the first place.

<3 8 v 8

hyro yamaguchi · Nov 16, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Making it a lot harder for full heroteams to form, because you would need at least 2 friends. Who wants heroes when you can have real players?

(A lot of people probably)

Sophitia Leafblade · Nov 16, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

maybe we have tried and after hours, yes hours and lots of them! of getting obsolutly no where, we had lost hope in battling in Ha until heros came along and gave us a chance to finally compete, not to mention in the older days when GW was newer there were alot more people doing HA (which was then Tombs) and now that amount is greatly reduced so all that is left are all the elitist who wont give anyone else a chance.

Anet will never be able to please everyone this is a fact of life but just because Anet makes changes for the better infor the majority doesnt mean any people who disagrees shouldnt be allowed to voice an opinion. Some us play this game because we love it and then we get slapped down because we are either non-farmers or non-pvp veterans which appear to be the majority of people who complain every time Anet makes an update, so the one time us people taht arnt in the aforemention catagrees make a comment we are instanty slammed down by the aformentioned. But we play the game as much as the rest of u we deserve to be atleast able to say out lil bit. Anet rules whatever they do is fine with me but dont dis us for having our say. No offense to anyone who disagrees

hyro yamaguchi · Nov 16, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

@Sophitia

-Get a guild who plays, hell you can join the one I'm in right now.
-Get a good friend list.
-Whisper the leader of a r3+ PUG, they'll sometimes let you in

Anyway, heroes have destroyed the other option:

-get an unranked PUG

Why? There are no unranked PUG's anymore. Anyway.

I was thinking about the rank stuf: it's like a single percent getting to HoH, so of each 100 teams that join, 99 don't get to make it to halls, of that 1% only 33% can hold.

Anyway, hall holds isn't a good measure for for skill: you could have played the previous maps a 1000 times w/o holding halls once.

But fame isn't a good skill measure either, farming the first 2 maps over and over again doesn't make you skilled.

Now if SF would be nerfed, and hero size limited, how far would you think a
n00b team will get? UW, scarred earth? What we need to do is determine that. And make it so that those maps don't give fame anymore, to prevent grinding.

Furthermore: Iway, SF etc. have caused huge rank inflation...right? And new players can't get accepted into HA right? And good players can get fame easily with their friend list and guild right? So...why not reset all fame? If we do everything we say, rank farmers will quit, skilled players will continue, because they probably don't care about fame anyway, new players will get a chanche and after a few weeks or months HA will be stable again, with
skilledplayers being ranked, and unranked PUG's forming again, because any Iwayed/ebayed/SF'd fame will no longer be around.

The guild ladder is reset after each season right? I assume that is to stop certain guilds to gain a headstart at new guilds, while they aren't the most skilled guild. Now why not reset the fame to make certain players get a headstart w/o having to be the most skilled?

Kabale · Nov 16, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

I did it, why can't you?

Because "they suck". IIRC, I sucked too when I was unranked. To be honest, you unranked people have Observer Mode so it should be much easier for you compared to when we were unranked, granted the competition back then was probably not as tough, but you still have access to all the builds people are using.

Sophitia Leafblade · Nov 16, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

@hyro yamaguchi

Im really not trying to come across as whining cause i love Gw, all of gws every little bit of it, i just like to do everything in it from Questing to Battling in Arenas. I understand every update Anet has made cause there trying to please as many people as they can.

Ive got a nice guild of friends that like but i wouldnt want to leave them there my friends, ok fair enough tahts my own fault for not leaving them but is that a reason to bar me from PvP because the majority of my guild is PvE based. Sure Ive got a friends list, except its full and its now hard to keep track of who are PvPers and PvEers etc and they all come on at different times. Once again you could argue this is my own fault bu if u meet someone nice or usful to know why should i have to kick them from the list because they wont come PvP with me

Hmm i guess you do have a point about heros damaging the chance of getting an unranked party but there are so few unranked people that actually take part in the tournament that if heros disappear alot of players especially un ranked one will stop playing it reducing the numbers even further.

Hmm im not sure if rank resetting would work, alot of people whould hate that but if it lets me compete in HA im all for it

Anet has tried several ways of increasing competition in HA, added heros was one attempt taking them away again is another, but the the problem is the whole HA system needs a big Revamp to allow both experienced and non experienced player to still be able to compete and enjoy themselves

And i have tried whispering several times to R3 teams but tehy either ignore me or just ask am i r3 and then decline me, i dont go around making random blind invites and i dont expect to go straight there and join a party of whatever rank in a few seconds to compete but i dont expect to have to spend hours searching for a team without success

Nurse With Wound · Nov 16, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Dont turn it into rank discrimination thread please.

Everyone was rank zero once. We all went trought it , and no one made it easier for us. If we could survive and go higher, so can you. Dont whine here about it trolling the thread. Instead do what we did. Form your own teams ( when they will remove heroes it will be much much easier ), learn the game, get better through trial and error.